Can you be fired for refusing to get a COVID-19 vaccine?

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  • #221936

    Can you be fired for refusing to get a COVID-19 vaccine? America is about to find out

    Christopher Neve had a spotless record and several pay raises in his six years as a deputy sheriff with the Durham County Sheriff’s Office.

    In March, he was put on leave without pay for insubordination and then terminated, court and personnel records show.

    This happened because Neve, 33, refused to get vaccinated, according to his North Carolina federal lawsuit filed in April.

    Christopher Neve, as a deputy sheriff with the Durham County Sheriff’s Office, could take the vaccine against his will or risk job loss, potential career consequences, a federal lawsuit alleges.

    What ever happened to the whole “MY BODY!  MY CHOICE!”

    He could either take the vaccine against his will or risk job loss, potential career consequences “and having his life upended.”

    Neve “stood by his informed medical decision to not take an experimental product and, as a result, was illegally fired,” the lawsuit alleged.

    I agree with his decision NOT to take the experimental product.

    But when worker reluctance becomes outright refusal, can bosses legally resort to pink slips?

    Months after federal workplace regulators indicated employers can mandate vaccination, a small group of worker lawsuits are putting that view to the test.

    Forcing people is always a bad policy.

    Some are suing to get their job back, but all these cases want judges to block employers from making vaccination requirements.

    They point to a federal statute that, they say, makes it clear they have the choice to accept or refuse vaccinations that are rolled out on an emergency basis. And they can’t be punished for their choice, they allege.

    The Food and Drug Administration granted emergency use authorization for the Pfizer PFE-BioNTech BNTX vaccine, the Moderna MRNA vaccine and the Johnson & Johnson JNJ vaccine.

    x

    Nationwide dilemma

    It’s an issue that will affect many people who return to work, or wish to return to work, without a coronavirus vaccine.

    Some 88% of employers say they’re planning to either demand or encourage staff to be vaccinated against COVID-19, according to an Arizona State University and Rockefeller Foundation survey of more than 1,300 employers.

    Six in ten employers said they’d be asking for proof of vaccination from staff, the late April survey said.

    I think that goes over a privacy/confidentiality line of the employees.

    Jonathan Diener, an attorney for the two former New Mexico detention center staffers says it’s a fight over a person’s capacity to make their own health decisions…

    Exactly!

    The statute requires the public be informed ‘of the option to accept or refuse administration of the product.’ But there is critical disagreement over whether this refers to just medical consequences or professional consequences. —
    These lawsuits, however, focus on a different part of federal law surrounding emergency use authorization.

    The statute requires the public be informed “of the option to accept or refuse administration of the product” and that undercuts employer directives, the lawsuits say. Among other things, the cases note, FDA fact sheets for all three vaccines emphasize the recipient’s right to choose or refuse.

    Our right to choose or refuse!  So that is the problem?

    “A consequence is, you might be fired,” Khan said. He said he believes the cases face an uphill battle.

    Diener, the attorney in New Mexico, said. “They are talking about medical consequences. …My take on it is they are not talking about any and all possible consequences.”

    The clash underscores the need for a judicial interpretation. “That,” Diener said, “is the whole point of this case.”

    I can see if it goes against the employees, that all companies can DEMAND your full medical history.  If you are not up on any booster shots, or don’t take a flu shot, you are FIRED!

     

    But I still think it is wrongful termination, as it has nothing to do with job performance, but what you put into your OWN BODY!

     

    What is everyone’s take on this?

    Does an employer have the right to demand your get an experimental drug that does not yet have long term side effects documented/listed, and are still discovering short term side effects (brain blood clots resulting in death)? or be FIRED!

    or

    Does an employee have the right to refuse an experimental drug and still can be employed at the company?

     

    #222066

    I don’t think an employer has a right to anything that has to do with your medical decisions. They are asking you to violate HIPPA by telling them what you have or not have had.

    My employer is not requiring them, although they are asking everyone to get them and ramping up the propaganda machine on the internal website. I will not be taking an experimental solution for something that is no worse than the yearly flu.

    And, for the record, I have never gotten a flu shot either.

    #222075
    Mustangride1
    Moderator

    The law currently says they have the right.

    What will happen upon enough challenges? Who Knows.

    But an employer who ask me would get hit with a HIPPA SUIT and we would see how far I can take it. If an employee gets pregnant can an employer terminate them? that is long established as a big HELL NO.  Nor can they ask for vaccination records prior to this (hippa). They can require a Doctors Note for missing work, but beyond it saying “the person is under the care and cannot work” nothing else can legally be stated by the Doctor.

    I have a Medical Exemption from wearing a Mask it states

    ” To whom it may concer:
    RE ( MY NAME AND DOB)
    The Patient was seen by ( dr name and date)  Due to his medical condition, I am authorizing him t not wear a mask or facial covering of any type. Wearing a Mask or Covering is DETRIMENTAL to his health.

    Under: “42 U.S. Code § 1320d–6 – Wrongful disclosure of individually identifiable health information” it is a criminal offense for myself or my staff to disclose the nature of the patients health issues that prevent him from wearing a face covering.

    This Letter should satisfy all requirements of the mandate by the Governor of the State of Arkansas in Executive Order 20-03 of March 11, 2020 and following Executives orders that (My name) is and has been under my care and does fulfill the exemption as outlined in “Section B” of the Listed exemptions.

    You may call to verify this information is true and current at (Phone Number) any request for further patient information must be accompanied via a Court Authorized Warrant for patients records for this circumstance, other records shall not be provided without further warrants.”

    This is a HIPPA issue the courts have ruled previously yes but with recent rulings on <for generic use “my body my choice” rulings and privacy> they would probably rule the employer cannot hire or fire based on it… But in truth it will be 2 years or more before anything hits the SCOTUS and by then it who knows where we will be.

    #226006

    She’s losing her job because she won’t get a COVID-19 vaccine. Will more health care providers make it mandatory for workers?

    When Melissa Fisher learned she’d have to get vaccinated to keep her job, she tried to fight it.

    As is her right.

    Fisher, who works in an assisted living and memory care facility run by Chicago-based Enlivant, gave the company a letter from her pastor explaining her religious objection. Fisher also volunteered to get tested for COVID-19 each week, rather than be vaccinated.

    And…

    But Enlivant stood firm, telling her in an email Friday that her request to forgo vaccination was denied because of the nature of her job and “the threat to yourself and others from remaining unvaccinated.”

    A threat?

    She said she would never endanger the people for whom she cares, and she wears masks and gloves. She doesn’t think it makes sense for Enlivant to require her to get vaccinated when outside health care workers and visitors are allowed in the facility without proof of vaccination.

    Rules for thee, and not for those paying for the services/visiting family members?

    At least a couple of lawsuits challenging workplace vaccine mandates by employers outside of the health care industry have been filed in federal court in other states, but no decisions have been reached in those cases, said Gregory Abrams, a partner at Faegre Drinker Biddle & Reath in Chicago.

    And the employees SHOULD win.  But then we are dealing with a court system over run by activists and not those that follow the letter of the law/constitution.

    “I just thought they would honor my freedom of religion, my rights, but apparently we don’t have that right anymore,” said Fisher, who is an apostolic holiness Christian.

    If you are not of the official cult/religion of the extreme far-toxic left, then you by default don’t deserve rights, is how I see it.

    According to guidance from the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, employees of any industry can ask to be exempted from vaccination requirements because of sincerely held religious beliefs or because of disabilities. But legal experts say employers can still require the shots if an unvaccinated person would pose a direct threat to others in the workplace, or if accommodating him or her would be an undue burden.

    So that is the excuse that can use to deny service/admittance to anyone who does not show their ‘PAPERS’ of proof.

    The beginnings of a “social score” system is almost here.

    #226345

    Well, it looks like they can now:

    U.S. Agency Makes Clear Companies Can Require Workers to Be Vaccinated Against COVID

    Updated statements from the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) say that U.S. companies and employers are allowed to require their employees to receive COVID-19 vaccinations.

    That is not good.

    On Friday, the EEOC updated its guidance to include that employers can mandate vaccines…

    “can”?

    …a poll by the Yale Chief Executive Leadership Institute said that about 70 percent of recent and current CEOs of major companies showed a general “openness” to mandating vaccines.

    That looks for like “WILL”.

    For employees exempt from mandatory vaccination, employers must comply with accommodation requirements, such as the Disabilities Act and other laws. The EEOC highlighted reasonable accommodations, including continuing to wear a mask, working at a social distance, or working virtually if applicable.

    And we have seen how hard it is to get that “exempt” status.

    We are already seeing how some companies make it that all new hire MUST have had the jab.

     

    This discrimination MUST end.

    #226347
    Mustangride1
    Moderator

    If the courts rule in the cases under litigation that employee;s do not have the authority to  force and employee to get the experimental shot then EEOC can pound sand, which they can anyway as many of their “Guidance” get beat in even the most liberal 9th circuit. Another agency no one even can explain why its there….

    No lawyer even uses their “Guidance” as part of a lawsuit in a termination case, they use the facts of the case and “State or Constitutional Law, 14th amendment is a favorite” Judges will ask an attorney to show where the rules an agency gives are Laws made by Legislatures” Justices want Laws not Guidance.

    But this article is moot until the courts rule on the pending cases. Currently an employer can require it.
    The pending cases stand a good chance of winning as most are based off the fact this is not a FDA approved Drug that has gone through the prosper testing, so much so  it is not even on the cdc list of vaccinations.

    #226353

    ‘Agencies’ do not write law.

    This is nothing more than a lie to force more people to get the RNA resequencer.

    #226357

    So long as the politicians refuse to make laws, those “agencies” have been given “free rein” to fill in the political vaccuum.

    Why try to pass a law (and know it will fail) when you can get a agenda driven agency do it for you for free?

     

    So when I hear people saying the system is broken, they are not looking at the right place.

    #226372

    Good read, thanks for sharing this.

    They have been making some really strong moves.  I was kicked out Wells Fargo about 3 months ago for not wearing a mask when they first opened up.  I have a health condition where I do not need to wear a mask.  Nor would I, unless I was sick with a cold and had to go out, then I would just use the drive up.  People have no common sense with all this, and it made going out a huge nightmare for me.  Needless to say, the guard dog at the door, asked me what was wrong with me?

    I said really?  You want to not only kick me out but break my HIPPA agreement?

    So I drive into the drive through at the bank.  The teller ended up saying she knew what I was talking about, and she was sorry and had to talk to her manager.  She comes back and says, we just can’t risk having a threat come into the bank.  I swear I live in the fucking Twilight Zone.

    How long have people getting sick?  Since when did masks suddenly protect vs a virus?

    All that knowledge and PDA’s about masks from the 1990’s are scrubbed from the internet.  Now it is all “updated science”.

    #226382

    Now it is all “updated science”.

    Social engineering, not science.

    Control the people, where they can go, when they can go, who they can see, etc.

    #226415
    Mustangride1
    Moderator

    @Oldie_Wan_Kenobi

    You used the wrong wording (I am An American with a Disability and Cannot wear one nor required to under the provisions of the state mandate, and your failure to Serve me is a Violation of the ADA law and exemptions by the State, I suggest you call your supervisor and ask them if its ok to refuse an American with Disabilities or a person exempted by the State) Only one time with Covid was I questioned, and said that… Want to guess how fast that employee got told he was wrong and I was apologized to by the manager.

    Hippa has nothing in this world to do with it, people keep making that wrong assumption. Hippa only prevents certain persons/groups from discussing it. Anyone can ask you what your condition is, you do not need to answer them. But beware there are people/groups NOT covered by HIPPA Law. They can disclose what you tell them.
    https://www.hhs.gov/hipaa/for-individuals/guidance-materials-for-consumers/index.html

    No one has the right to refuse service to anyone with a disability (legal disability verified by a Doctor) and why in all mandates exemptions were made for medical conditions. The States Know of ADA Law and it is settled Law and why exemptions were made.

    Hippa vs ADA is where so many people are getting confused, along with the confusing and nonlegal opinions by agencies. Covid is so Political no one knows what to believe.

    #226744

    Thanks for explaining that @Mustangride1

    #226768
    Mustangride1
    Moderator

    @Oldie_Wan_Kenobi I believe you said in another post your live in FL.

    I had a business in FL and can tell you even a small complaint will be taken seriously and investigate with extreme prejudice
    This seems to be the area covered for your instance
    Sec. 12182. Prohibition of discrimination by public accommodations
    Under:

    TITLE 42 – THE PUBLIC HEALTH AND WELFARE

    CHAPTER 126 – EQUAL OPPORTUNITY FOR INDIVIDUALS WITH DISABILITIES

    I know FL was at one point trying to get an ADA law on the books that was even stronger than the Federal law, the people in “the villages” were pushing hard for it, so you could also check on that.

     

    #227712

    Update:

    Houston Hospital Workers Walk Out Over Covid Vaccine Mandate

    Dozens of staff members at a Houston-area hospital protested on Monday night against a policy that requires employees to be vaccinated against Covid-19.

    The hospital, Houston Methodist, had told employees that they had to be vaccinated by Monday. Last month, 117 employees filed a lawsuit against the hospital over the vaccine policy.

    But that is not enough.

    Vaccine hesitancy has been high among frontline health care workers in the United States: Surveys showed that nearly half remained unvaccinated as of mid-March, despite being among the first to become eligible for the shots in December. A March 2021 survey by the Kaiser Family Foundation found that health care workers had concerns about the vaccines’ newness and their possible side effects, both of which are common reasons for waiting to be vaccinated.

    As are most people who have not taken/no want the shot.

    What are the long-term side effects?

    What, you say you don’t know, but take the shot anyway.

    “If we don’t stop this now and do some kind of change, everybody’s just going to topple,” Ms. Bridges told local news media covering the protest. “It’s going to create a domino effect. Everybody across the nation is going to be forced to get things into their body that they don’t want and that’s not right.”

    Hey, how about a micro chip so we can monitor everything you do.

    I know that is an extreme notion, but then again, where does this invasion of “my body my choice” end?

    Those who did not meet the hospital’s vaccination deadline on Monday will be placed on a two-week unpaid suspension. If they do not meet the requirements by June 21, Houston Methodist said it would “initiate the employee termination process.”

    That is BLACKMAIL!

    That is forcing someone under duress to do something against their will.

    On Monday, Gov. Greg Abbott of Texas signed a law prohibiting businesses or government entities in the state from requiring vaccine passports, or digital proof of vaccination, joining states such as Florida and Arkansas. It’s unclear how or if the new law will affect employer mandates like Houston Methodist’s.

    Those employers will get sued for wrongful terminations.

    Then again, we are seeing more and more health care providers using the “we have a right to admit/deny anyone we want from our premise”, in preventing non-vaxxed people from visiting/getting health care aid, they will argue along the same lines about refusing enter of an “employee”, and if that employee “can’t work”, then they are defacto fired.

    #227730
    Mustangride1
    Moderator

    Arkansas I can speak to, and employee cannot be fired for not getting the JAB “IF” they work for the State or Local government. Business can require it still.

    There is several bills being written to prohibit business from asking and or firing people for not getting it. From some of the reporting they are looking to make ALL medical issues protected right of the patient and a NOSE out of peoples personal business to employers with the exception they can require a doctors not for excessive days off for medical illness or treatments. My Opinion is this should be Federal Law as well… Employers need to keep their nose out of peoples personal lives except for a few exceptions.

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