Greedy People ruined crypto

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  • #290245
    Vknid
    Moderator

      I have posted some of this before, but with some large exchanges and coins in trouble or failing crypto seems doomed to either not exist or be regulated to the point where it is shouldn’t.

      Crypto was never supposed to be about making money.  Its entire reason for being was that you could hold or move money without a goverment or banks involved.  That was/is the real power of it.

      What it got turned into was an easy way for greedy people to essentially make digital Ponzi and pump and dump schemes.  Which ,since it is all digital, is pretty simple to do with ever more creative ways of hiding what is going on beneath layers of software obfuscation.

      Oddly enough none of this is new, really only the medium through which it is done is.  Ponzi and pump and dump scams happen with stocks on the regular.  And if you are right now saying to yourself, well they just need to regulate crypto.  Ask yourself, does regulation stop those scams from happening in the stock market?

      Greedy folks with no morality beyond what benefits them will always exist and they will always be attracted to anything they can exploit.  And unfortunately there will always be people who are lured into their schemes.  Regulation does not change that.

      In summary, crypto was a powerful and awesome idea and mechanism.   But it has been absolutely ruined by get rich quick schemes. And that is pretty much the case whether regulation comes or does not in my mind.

      #290250

      Hard to comment on this, as I still perceive crypto as a new thing, even though BTC has been around for ten years. I think it actually has nothing to do with crypto and nothing to do with the people involved, but more the financial system that does not allow freedom and does not allow competition. Payment processors and few select websites like Patreon have too much control.

      I thought crypto was going to allow easy payments to people. There was another thread about the WNBA salaries and I might comment on that one later, but I am a tennis fan and supposedly, pro tennis is the favorite sport of Wall Street. Well, like the WNBA, professional tennis has such a salary problem, that any ATP player not ranked in like the top 20 in the world can barely afford to travel and play. When Crypto came out, I was hoping it would be like Cashapp or Venmo, where you could just tip a player a few bucks if you wanted to see him play and succeed.

      Then, you have crowdfunding on certain sites, but it’s just way too centralized. Why can’t crypto and crowdfunding by fast and simple like cashapp? If I want to tip a comic creator or an author of a novel, I should be able to select that person, type in my 4-digit pin and send him a few bucks. I do that all the time with my favorite broadcasters, btw.

      The futuristic sci-fi problem that is going to occur if crypt would have took off without any system involvement would be when popularity determines salary. Like the world is one big reality show and people with the highest ratings would generate the most revenue, depending on the adoring public and fans that they had.

      Dani and Eytan Kollin’s The Unincorporated Man kind of touched on this, but if players and people could receive crypto tips based on likes, like a penny plan even or a March of Dimes, you could end up with a situation where people themselves are bought and sold on the market. It would be like how Elon always says, “Vox Populi, Vox Dei” and the poll would be monetized in crypto payments and valuations of people themselves would fluctuate.

      Other futuristic things that touched on this was the Mojoverse in X-Men, where the fat cat corporatist would make them fight for ratings.

      The other one was https://imagecomics.com/comics/series/vs War has become a spectator sport. Privately funded armies of superstar soldiers march into battle for fame, profit, and the glory of their sponsor nations. When a new generation of soldiers arrive, top gladiator Satta Flynn is about to discover how fleeting the limelight can be. VS delivers spectacular action, darkly humorous satire, and explores our hunger for fame and our penchant for self-destruction.

      Also, believe it or not, the great Alex Jones had an amazing rant one day when he was in the zone flow state and said that he believes the brainchip will make demigods out of teenagers, who will command millions of followers and be billionaires before twenty due to their brainchip command of all the social media sites.

      Last thing, but it would frustrate me as a guy who thinks of economics like you do, but a European would simply lecture about how the problem is actually the Capitalist system itself and this is the end result of it. We have had bubble economics for generations. I saw a video on it recently, where when the Fed and plunge protection  team was created, it allowed for further regulation of the economic cycle and allowed insiders to bank off of the rise and fall. This was long, long, long before crypto.

       

      The problem with the accusation against the capitalist system is that we do not have one. We do not use captial, we use credit. I guess you could say savings or hard assets are capital, but the moment you borrow against it, it’s a credit based debt system. We were lied to all our lives about “free markets” and “free trade” and “capitalism.” I was going to comment on it on the WNBA thread, but have to think about it more. Clearly, success and salary have nothing to do with ratings or the market. We really have kind of a caste system. How do businesses that don’t make money stay afloat, unless they have other purposes or motives? How do celebrities that keep bombing at the box office keep getting work? These questions reveal a deeper nature of our economic financial system. It’s not what the Koch brothers told us it was.

      #290257
      Vknid
      Moderator

        Crypto is not the problem, the scammers are.  If crypto is an “issue” because scammers abuse it then the stock market needs to be shutdown as well.

        The irony here is MOST of the folks falling for these pump and dump scams have something in common with the people perpetrating them.  And that is an overwhelming greed.  They are trying to get in quick to make a bunch of cash quickly but the scammers are often times pretty talented and creative and rob almost everyone.

        Look at the whole CryptoZoo thing.  The only people who made bank off that (that I am aware of) are Logon Paul and the folks who created it (for the express purpose of a pump and dump I am sure).

        My advice to everyone out there is to use crypto for what it was intended for originally.  Move funds around with it without the involvement of banks and governments.  DO NOT try to make quick cash off it because you will lose it.

        #290260

        Good warning. I was not following the CryptoZoo thing and would never pay any attention to Logan Paul or Jake Paul. Never liked them. Terrible music. Awful show. Only thing Logan Paul did that I liked was The Thinning with Peyton List. I liked that movie. Never heard from him again. Never heard him say or do even one thing interesting. I recall him mocking the Japanese suicide forest, which was about as disgusting and insulting a thing that a person could possibly do in life. Logan and Jake Paul ruined boxing with fixed matches. Influencer boxing. I’m at the point in life where I despise celebrities. I’d rather see fights where a working man gets to call out a celebrity for a fight.

        As for pump and dumps, if celebrities are involved, they are probably worse than SBF. I hope the fans turn on the celebrities. Celebrities have clearly joined forces with robber barons to loot the public. The public needs to push back.

        #290281
        Vknid
        Moderator

          Celebrities are the false idols the Bible warned us about.  In my mind, worshipping anything but God will result in failure and disappointment.

          But in spite of that Biblical wisdom you have folks who apparently will believe these dingdongs.  From what I gather CryptoZoo was not the first scam Logon Paul pulled with Crypto yet people still bought into it.  And soon as he made his cash and it imploded he was on the next one.

          #290287

          Yeah. False idols and false gods made by Big Media. You can not trust Big Media anymore. Full of Groomers. Owen Benjamin and Shiva were talking about this subject the other day, I think. Where every politician, celebrity and e-celebrity is a false offering as bait to hook the fish public and mislead them to rip them off. Every single one of them, promoted by the media, is created with the intent to lead people to one of the dead-end establishment parties.

          My subconscious always said Douchebag when Logan Paul appeared. Others do not share my views, but I think the same of Tom Brady. While others like Aaron Rogers and Jonathan Isaac and Novak spoke out on issues, Tom said nothing. After the crypto thing, that’s two strikes, in my view. I don’t trust him nor Kevin O’Leary.

          Below, this guy talks about a story involved a “hack” of 3Commas site, which was a trading platform that traders could link exchanges to. Just a tuber I listen to, so no endorsement.

          #290288
          Vknid
          Moderator

            I agree.  ANYTIME you see them push something or someone you see them do it in unison.  I run the other way every time because I can see the orchestration and I know it is not organic.  It’s the case where instead of giving a “market” what it wants they try to create the market themselves.  It is a never ending cycle.

            Owen Benjamin can be wacky at times but dude says some intelligent stuff at times as well.  I heard him once say a great quote.  “The devil hates beauty because he cannot create it”.  Very prophetic.

            #290335
            TheBat
            Premium

              People have to work through hundreds of years of fiat centralization.

               

              The available technology is farther ahead. It’s kind of like inventing a car but jumping directly from stone wheels.

              This is called ‘chaoskamf’ (and ironically what The Joker represents to Batman). Basically chaoskamf are the new problems that come with new solutions. Before cars existed there were no car wrecks. Are cars responsible for car wrecks? Does society think the value of the car outweighs the cost of car wrecks? Are we able to mitigate the damage of car wrecks to influence those decisions?

              Jumping from paper currency to digital money is like jumping from stone wheels to cars.

              #290342
              Vknid
              Moderator

                I not so sure it is the evolution you think it is.  Sure, it’s different than the current system but at the end of the day they are both 1’s and 0’s in a database somewhere.  I mean I like crypto’s ability to move money without interference but it’s digital like the current system really is.

                #290345

                I don’t think the progress is going to be allowed. This is something I’ve always had a problem with is that the left, or the part of the left that calls themselves progressives actually bring up very good points, and after the left/right paradigm was shattered, I did listen to them more. The generations are supposed to be getting better, but wages, education, marriage rates, cost of living, etc. are not doing that.

                Crypto in the idealistic sense could be fantastic. Think if this site had a penny plan or spare change settings tab, so you could tip someone every time you hit the like button. Like a dime. Or a quarter. The powers that be had crowdfunding. There are still too many payment processors that are centralized. Too many middlemen preventing what crypto could be. In fact, isn’t that the overall case? You really don’t have a say on how your money is spent and where it is directed. Does it bother you that your own money goes to invaders instead of countrymen?

                So, I like the idea that crypto represents a technological leap forward, but instead, if centralized, it will only come with personal identity chains. Chains that allow for tracking and tracing. You should be the one calling the shots with your money. Not some corporation who never did anything for you. In fact, automation has ruined and destroyed service.

                #290349
                Vknid
                Moderator

                  You make a great point.  I did not think of it that way but not only does crypto allow you to move funds without banks it is direct from A to B without middlemen.  Obviously this will upset the middlemen who basically make money without really producing anything which is the whole gig economy thing.  Which I do believe is a blight on society. Companies like PayPal have no inventory and little overhead so they are basically printing money while costing the consumer.  Crypto does solve that.

                  Tipping through Crypto would also solve the whole “well without Ads how to we make money” thing.  Because right now the only answer are subscriptions.  But if you could toss 50 cents or a dollar at someone without a middleman taking 30% that would be very advantageous to solving that issue.

                   

                  • This reply was modified 1 year, 2 months ago by Vknid.
                  #290353

                  I would not even mind a middleman if they would just objectively make the transfer simple, fast and easy like Cashapp. After thinking about it, I am not on it much, but Locals does have that feature where you can buy tokens and tip people you follow in those tokens and you can choose the amount, so you can just give them spare change or up to tens of dollars, but it’s in tokens. That’s almost exactly how crypto should be.

                  It’s surprising, but not so much, that Twitter and Elon have not done that already, which is, a way to monetize more people. The more people you serve, the more of a legacy you leave. If Twitter was like Locals, you’d be able to tip Twitter folks you like in Doge or Shib. So, if someone makes an edgy, wicked, cutting tweet with a good pt., here’s a nickel in Shib or Doge. There might be a reason for this. I know a lot of the fakers and posers get revenue sharing, like if they are an “official partner,” which really means payola influencer working for the other guy instead of the little guy.

                  Like you said though, there is just way, way, way too much greed at the top. They all want their cut, but then, they ban the very people who want to participate, or just make it so much of a hassle and so complicated, that it is not worth the effort. I am one who does not mind paying fees for actual service. If that service is not there, I do think I should get a refund because the thing does not work.

                  What we already saw with PayPal, Patreon, and others, was the whole “social credit score” thing. I am all for cracking down on liars, but the corporation should not get to decide who gets to simply use the soapbox at Speaker’s Corner, you know?

                  #290355

                  How Crypto Currency works… an analogy in Layman’s terms.

                  Not long ago a merchant found a lot of monkeys that lived near a certain Village.

                  One day he came to the Village saying he wanted to buy these monkeys!

                  He announced that he would buy the monkeys at $100 each.

                  The villagers thought that this man must be crazy – How can somebody buy stray monkeys at $100 each?

                  Still some people caught some monkeys and gave it to this merchant and he gave $100 for each monkey.

                  This news spread like wildfire and people caught monkeys and sold them to the merchant.

                  After a few days, the merchant announced that he will buy monkeys at $200 each.

                  The lazy villagers also ran around to catch the remaining monkeys!

                  They sold the remaining monkeys at $200 each.

                  The merchant then announced that he will buy monkeys for $500 each!

                  The villagers start to lose sleep!…..They caught six or seven monkeys, which was all that was left and got $500 each.

                  The villagers were waiting anxiously for the next announcement.

                  Then the merchant announced that he is going on Holiday for a week, but when he returns, he will buy monkeys at $1000 each!

                  He also said that his employee will be in charge, and would take care of the monkeys he bought pending his return.

                  The Merchant went on holiday!

                  The Villagers were frantic and very sad as there were no more monkeys left for them to sell it at $1000 each as was promised by the Merchant.

                  Then the Merchant’s Employee contacted them and told them that he would secretly sell them some monkeys at $700 each.

                  The news spread like wildfire. As the Merchant promised on his return that he would buy monkeys at $1000 each, they would achieve a $300 profit for each monkey.

                  The next day The Villagers queued up near the Monkey Cage.

                  The Employee sold all the monkeys at $700 each. The Rich bought monkeys in large lots. The poor borrowed money from money lenders and bought the rest of the monkeys!

                  The Villagers took care of their monkeys & waited for the Merchant to return!

                  However nobody came ! ….. Then they ran to Find the Employee

                  ….However he was not to be found!

                  The Villagers then realized that they have been duped buying the useless Stray monkeys at $700 each, and were now unable to sell them!

                  This Monkey Business is now known as Crypto Currency Industry.!

                  #290356
                  Vknid
                  Moderator

                    That is not at all how crypto works.  That is how a pump and dump works and that goes whether it is stocks or crypto.  What’s going in with crypto scams is not at all new. The method of the scam is new but the scam itself is not.  Just like stocks, crypto itself is not a scam. But both can be used to scam people.

                    Essentially, anytime someone promises to make you money out of thin air in short order whether it’s monkeys or crypto it’s a scam.

                    #290371

                    You have a limited number of Crypto available (they are set – you cannot create more of any one currency).

                    You start telling people it is available.

                    You entice people to buy in, and what a great deal it is.

                    You get the speculators, the cons, etc. coming in to artificially bump up the price.

                    The cons and speculators will sell off while it is still at a high.

                    When the crash happens, the people who believed in the original concept and invested for the long term, have been screwed.

                    To me, that is crypto.  (and it is also the same with NFTs)

                    NFTs are also called non-fungible tokens, and they are blockchain-held tokens that represent a unique asset – whether physical or digital.

                    You are investing in a concept.  You don’t OWN/possess anything physical.

                     

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