I believe America was meant to be restricted by a common morality

I think you’re missing a few points Vknid.

“You clearly do not understand the people you love to talk poorly of because you use a very broad brush to paint them all in a similar fashion. Sure, it’s very easy to shove everyone with whom you disagree with in a box and label it as bad. “

These are the key points that need to be solved for religious conservatives and libertarians to get along.

We use a broad brush not because we believe all religious people to be lunatics who will burn heretics at the stake. Absolutely not. But for centuries good religious people allowed the maniacs to be in charge.
Conversely, religious people wield the same broad brush, when they bring up the atrocities of Communism each time they debate Atheism. Een though someone like me is ideologically as far away from Communism as you are from the Spanish inquisition (at least I hope you are).

Why do we do this? Because we don’t trust the other side with being in charge, because it turned out badly before.
That’s why we reject religion as foundation for society.

“So you are fine with people who believe in God. But only if their God agrees with you. Got it.”

Nope. God agreeing or disagreeing with us is immaterial, because we don’t believe in the existence of a god. What isn’t immaterial is when religious people try to force god’s morality upon us.

But by that same token, we can’t push our morality on you. So it brings us back to Ayn Rand and even your opening statement. A common, objective morality must be defined by which society can function *despite* people not agreeing on important parts like homosexuality, abortion etc.
It may very well be impossible. I don’t have an answer to how that would work. I know the solution isn’t to put either group in charge and hope for the best. And it surely isn’t “democracy” which is nothing but mob rule. In the end, I think a permanent separation and then coexisting as good neigbors would be the smartest thing to do.

Not that it really matters, since the communists won already anyways.

I believe America was meant to be restricted by a common morality

It was not, Plain simple unquestionable, if it was then we would have had a “State sponsored religion or at minimal accepted”  Our founders were adamantly  clear on that point. That is the point of the First Amendment.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Anyone who understand the 13 colonial ordinances would understand they were all against any singular form of religion and even morality code. Those Ordinances dated back to the mid-1600’s.  The The Massachusetts Body of Liberties  (1641)  had many of the same principles in it as does our Amendments and then some. When you read it and all the other Colonial ordinances you cannot come away with anything but a deep respect for our true founders, the early colonist.

They left Great Brittan to escape other mens (King and Parliaments)among others> morals and ethical codes, they wanted to be free and for all free-men to be free to do as they saw fit under a very  Liberty Heavy system of laws.  Chiefly to practice religion or even not as a person saw fit. Our founders understood all to well Religion could be perverted and often was especially when hand in hand with the state.

The morality if anything in all our funding documents was that is was best left up to the people on a local level as to what was to be allowed. They certainly had rules and regulations for fairness. Some states took it further and created “Blue Laws” which goes against all morality and even our founders wishes.

People who put any “God” in to a law or their belief i should say in to a law are in fact putting their morals and ethics on others, the very thing our true founders left Britannia to escape “Religious Persecution”  religion is the devils tool, make no mistake on that. More people have died because of religion than any other reason in history.  Now I am not saying Believing in God or having Faith is a bad thing. I believe in God, I have a faith in God. BUT I HATE RELIGION. It and any morality springing from a religion is doomed to fail as it imposes a set value of morals and ethics by one group that many others will not have or abide by.

Our nation was founded on laws that were Just to all, not based on a Morality of religion but simply on fairness as it was seen at the time. Proof of that is as I stated above. Many of those ordinances became parts of our Constitution and Bill of Rights. They have stood the test of time since 1641 (382 years).

Some have been revised and amended, but never stepping backward. They were done to give even more Liberty to more Peoples of our Nation. Makes me Proud knowing the History and why I have faith in our country and laws, even in these very trying times.

• This reply was modified 1 year, 4 months ago by Mustangride1.

You put Religion in to this discussion in your first paragraph, second sentence. So when people talk about this subject it is your own words who brought it in.

Taking Business first.
Capitalism and Government were not invented to be constrained by “Morality”. Capitalism in itself does not support morality in fact it is the complete opposite as it promotes competition which will and always has spawned a atmosphere of “Do what you have to, to win or get ahead of your competition by whatever means you have to, and don’t get caught doing some of them” That is the hard cold blunt truth, business has no Morals or Ethics at its core as any good business person will do what they can in the end to protect their business. Especially as most business are also the income for the person and their family, Morals and Ethics go out the window when protecting your family. If you do not believe that, im sorry but its the truth.

Government now.

Government makes laws to keep things equal, yet throughout history we have seen laws are not always moral and in fact discriminatory in nature and certainly not equal. Even hinting government has ever been truly moral is laughable, Government is self serving to government. Our own government has a host of laws and regulation that actually harm business and in the end the consumer “you and I” by costing us more money at the end product stage.  Heck the Second Bill signed in to law was the Tariff act of 1789.

What they are constrained by is getting caught doing something that angers the consumers/voters. Even then most will just blush but continue on.

“Competition is a sin.” – John D. Rockefeller ——————- “At the time (1883), Rockefeller and Rothschild were competing as the world’s foremost oil and banking barons. But the two competitors each finally realized that competition was not a good thing.

Oil and banking in the quote.

Big Tech, Big Media, Big Aggro (farming, Monsanto), Walmart, etc. Big Beverage.

How many people have been de-banked? Without violating any rules.
How many people have been de-platformed? Without violating any rules.

IMO, the whole woke thing is just another way to reduce competition.