Snowden, hero or criminal?

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  • #286655
    Vknid
    Moderator

      If you listen to his story I think the answer is quite clear.

      This is an awesome interview by one of the few remaining journalists.

      #286657
      Mustangride1
      Moderator

        Dude is a criminal, if caught should be Tried for Treason and upon conviction executed.

        There was many potential ways for him to get the “information out” I do not believe him for one second and never will.

        #286658
        Vknid
        Moderator

          I disagree with that.  If you watch the interview it might change your mind a bit.

          Who was he supposed to go to report the corrupt goverment?  The goverment?

          Listen to his tales of other whistleblowers and see what happened to them.

          In fact here is a comment someone left on the video.

          “My father was a private contractor who worked in the Pentagon. I have no clue of exactly what he did. It had something to do weapon systems. He had an extremely high security clearance and he took his clearance seriously. On a project my father was working on he came across something that he referred to as unethical and left it at that. He spoke up as a whistleblower. It ruined his career and launched a CIA investigation of him, my mother, and me and my siblings who were all adults with families of our own. The CIA interviewed our neighbors and employers. The only thing to come from the investigation was the unbelievable stress of the investigation on our family. I believe the investigation was to intimidate and show him there is a price to pay for whistleblowing.”

          • This reply was modified 2 months, 2 weeks ago by Vknid.
          #286664
          Mustangride1
          Moderator

            No sir, I will not change my mind.

            Though 1 court has ruled in 2020 that the programs were illegal and violated the Constitution he was trying to expose. He also took an estimated 1.5 million documents that were of other information including Military. He then fled to Russia and enemy nation and who knows what he gave to them to get Asylum.

            #286677
            Vknid
            Moderator

              “He also took an estimated 1.5 million documents that were of other information including Military”

              What was the origin of that statement?  The corrupt goverment he outed?

              And just because one might suppose he gave something to Russia is not the same as proof he did.

              At the end of the day, the man gave up his life in this country in an effort to protect the country.   That is how I see it.

               

              #286736
              Mustangride1
              Moderator

                lmao, you think Russia would have let him stay there if he did not give them something? Seriously you can honestly say you  believe that?

                The source of the statement was the Head of the Joint chiefs and yes also collaborated by the Government, the same one that in a court would have to verify those numbers to a jury. It may never go beyond their eyes, but they would see them nonetheless. But there is absolutely no doubt he took documents and then did release them. So Yes I am in this case going to believe the Government and HIS own Actions as proof.  I do not believe our government or any as a rule, but when there is no doubt by his own actions he did it, I can believe my own eyes.

                Gave up his country to protect it lmfao. I tell you what, go to your local veterans cemetery,  those in it who died in actual service gave up far more than this treasonous bastard who is living very nicely.  Some of them may well even be there because of his actions. Oh I know, I cannot prove it is your argument, but nonetheless there they lay. Oh I cannot prove he gave Russia documents, yet there he is comfortably there and safe.

                As I said, I will never change my mind.

                #286738
                Vknid
                Moderator

                  I am not trying to change your mind. I am simply expressing my opinion.  You are free to think what you will.

                  But you ask if I believe if  he would he given asylum in Russia for simply pissing off the US government?  Yes, I believe he would.  Putin and company would embrace him just for that I think.  In the same way they would stick it to Brittany Griner for the same exact reason despite the possible international implications.

                  #286765
                  Mustangride1
                  Moderator

                    Your opinion? Exactly what is your opinion?  “That he gave up his Life in this country to protect it”?
                    Answer this, did he:

                    Steal Government Property? Yes or No

                    Willfully release Classified Intelligence Information to an Unauthorized Person(S)? Yes or No

                    Willfully Communicate release Classified National Defense Information? Yes or No

                    You asked about the source. I gave it to you, The Government and HIS own actions and words proved it out. That is a criminal act regardless of all else it is a criminal act.  Those facts are Undeniable, he did it he admits to doing it when HE released the documents.

                    Brittany Griner has nothing at all to do with this, she committed a criminal act in a foreign country and is getting to pay the piper for it. This has NOTHING to do with Snowden.

                    My opinion has been crystal clear from day 1 I found out about what he did.

                    But if its not let me make it even more clear.If he is ever apprehended, He should be charged with the three counts listed originally and if possible Treason, and upon conviction sentenced appropriately. (the original three charges would be 30 years in prison) Treason if convicted (Death) and also any other charges possible, including Selling information to our enemies. At minimum he should never see the light of a free day again and preferable executed for at minimum selling information (and using it to gain asylum and now citizenship is selling it).

                    You can have an opinion all day long and deep in to the night. But when the facts (in this case the persons own actions) support the governments allegations, well your opinion does not hold up to the facts.

                    If you think Russia and the other nations would just do give him protections to snub the US without anything in return, well that i do not know what to say to.

                    • This reply was modified 2 months, 2 weeks ago by Mustangride1.
                    #286767
                    Vknid
                    Moderator

                      He outed the US government for doing things it is not only prohibited from doing but specifically lied about not doing.  The US goverment is the one you should be upset at , not Snowden.  He was working on data collection not military secrets.  It is not Snowden who violated the rights of every American by stealing their meta data it was the US Goverment.

                      I doubt his plan then entire time was to steal secrets so he could gain asylum in Russia.  He could have just gone to Russia.

                      That’s my take on it.  We will just have to agree to disagree on this one.

                      #286773
                      Mustangride1
                      Moderator

                        Agree to Disagree on what?

                        You still have not answered the questions. Sorry but when someone says “Agree to Disagree” without answering the fundamental questions that is a cop-out. You started a topic and I say he is a Criminal.  You still have not said if he is or is not and have not answered the simple questions.

                        Did he:

                        Steal Government Property? Yes or No

                        Willfully release Classified Intelligence Information to an Unauthorized Person(S)? Yes or No

                        Willfully Communicate release Classified National Defense Information? Yes or No

                         

                        His motives we only have his word for, I do not believe him. Was the government wrong? Again, that is not the issue in this discussion. It is if he is a criminal or not and if you answer yes to any of the above questions then the answer is yes he is regardless of the governments actions.

                        #286790
                        Vknid
                        Moderator

                          I really was just trying to state my opinion and have a conversation.  You seem intent on some sort of battle, but that is not at all what I am trying to do here.

                          Did he break US laws?  If we look at them without any context yes.  But the context was he is a whistleblower.  He was reporting crimes.  Crimes performed by the US goverment against it’s people.  So he committed a crime to report a crime.

                          Did he steal Goverment property?  Not sure, the only thing I was aware of was information not property.

                          Did he release classified info.  Yes, but that info was about crimes against the US citizens as it pertains to NSA data collection.

                          Did he Willfully release defense info? Not that I am aware of no.  I believe he was a contractor for the NSA not the military.

                          To be specific ,the data he captured and released (to my knowledge) was about NSA data collection in the US and around the world.

                           

                          Just my 2 cents.

                           

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