Why capitalism has gone off the rails

Not an easy topic, and too oversimplified in the initial post. First, one must define what capitalism is:  Is it corporatism, is it the current day “social democracy” (aka crony capitalism) or is it a pure form like libertarianism or even anarchism / anarcho-capitalism as laid by Ayn Rand?

The basic idea of capitalism is that every person owns their own labor. They are free to negotiate the price of their labor, the conditions of their labor and the price of the product of their labor. Moreover, this is based on the idea of private property. If you don’t own your own labor, you don’t own any property, because labor is the means by which one creates or acquires property.

This is different from authoritarian systems, where government either completely organizes labor (as in communism), lays claim to ones labor (through taxes) or regulates the conditions under which people are allowed to labor. Just so there are no misunderstandings, there is a good argument to be made for regulations: i.e. environmental protections, so businesses, farmers etc don’t just dump toxic waste in rivers. Or safety regulations like food safety. Very few people would argue for 100% anarchism, just as very few would argue for a 100% communist dictatorship or the complete abolition of private property. The difference is: anarchism isn’t really dangerous, because no one has power over anyone else. Authoritarianism on the other hand is a slippery slope, because once people have power over others, they usually seek to grow that power. Which is how the US went from a small, limited government free country to a socialist woke dictatorship.

The questions are: 1. what is the optimal degree or regulation?   2. Who gets to regulate?

In the current system of representative democracy (election integrity notwithstanding), elected rulers are supposed to represent the people and regulate the economy and safety of the people. Obviously it’s not working. When you have a ruling class with power over people, they will inevitably sell access to power while at the same time growing that power. Before long, you end up in a dictatorship. This is the destiny of all democracies.

An argument can be made for a purer form of capitalism without government or where government is limited to managing budgets which the people vote on through direct democracy and on a purely local level. This would be a system without a federal government, where all spending is local.
While this would certainly cut down corruption to near zero, it’s not without problems: Without a huge imperial military, you become vulnerable to countries that have them.

2) Force the lifestyle on everyone especially kids as to further the breakdown of the family to speed the breakdown of the country in it’s current form.

it’s not about forcing lifestyle on anyone, I don’t get why all people on the far right say it. Conversion therapy doesn’t work in any way, the idea of Pride month and all the LGBT stuff is to just normalize that stuff because even tho gay people have the same rights in terms of law, they are still not equal socially in some instances.

I used to oppose pride month and that stuff just like everyone here but seeing some batshit crazy people here and in general who spew shit about gay people being icky and immoral and having biases towards them, I came to the conclusion that it is necessary to normalize them and maybe some of them will feel more comfortable coming out. Just today I looked a. Ideo about Michael Knowles crying of a fucking Burger King ad sprinkled with some pride topping and the comments were full of crybabies saying how they will never eat at BK again because they… support gay people?

Now I want to clarify that I don’t go to the pride march events or anything, I just don’t care really. If they wanna have their little gay parties then go ahead. But people who get triggered over it should just learn to look away and not piss and moan about it. Welcome to capitalism.

@SuperSoynic_Speed one thing that I’ve seen that you’ve failed to mention is how the LGBTQ community is sort of tired of being propped up during pride month to be corporate cash cows since they think we’ll throw money at anything and everything with a rainbow on it. A company’s actions speak way louder than words.

I’m sure you’ve seen examples of Disney editing out LGBTQ scenes specifically for international releases to countries that don’t allow it.
One example: https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2021/06/lgbtq-fans-calling-disney-celebrating-pride-heres/

I’d say this video probably speaks the best on how corporations approach the LGBTQ community.
https://twitter.com/iamBrandonTV/status/1405304283915067398?s=20&t=725pBySjh8pNjlmVBiOWUA

All this being said, I’m not saying that companies or businesses shouldn’t be more inclusive to the LGBTQ community by any means, but they need to acknowledge that we exist outside of June too.

LGBTQ community is sort of tired of being propped up during pride month to be corporate cash cows

it’s hard to say the whole community is feeling a certain way. But I agree that there is a certain line of pandering which some companies do cross, and the fake pandering to gay people like the video you showed is just cringe. Some people on the left criticize rainbow capitalism also so I guess they have some common ground with certain people on the right.

And one example where it is really shoved in your throat on the expemse of straight people is The Last of Us 2 where they kill off Joel and force you to play with Abby who everyone hates and can’t wait to kill but then she just gets away. There are instances where the pandering goes too far and it’s just a fuck you sign to like 95% of the audience (young white males).

But when people like Michael Knowles and other right wing people shit their pants and boycott companies for adding rainbow colors on the package of their products then I think they should have a look in the mirror about who are the real snowflakes here.

but they need to acknowledge that we exist outside of June too.

I agree and a lot of effort should be put to normalize them in society but the pushback from the far right is so strong that it’s not an easy task. An ideal situation would be that these people would be so normalized in society that we don’t need any pride month or campaigns to normalize them.

@Mustangride1

I didn’t talk about the GnG crew now (even if I think Jeremy, Ryan, Josiah etc are extremely whiny and clueless in many topics) but I meant certain users on this site. I don’t know how long you have been here but in the beginning of this site it had a number of just straight up alt right psychos who were referring black people as animals, pushing conversion therapy on gay people because the bible doesn’t like them and posting insane conspiracy theories about how jews and gay people were behind terrorist attacks and so on. Surprisingly, after the January 6th attack from the domestic terrorists a lot of these people just disappeared from here. My guess is they went to jail or mental asylum.

And it’s kinda funny how I used to agree with almost everything GnG said and a lot of the right wing talking points, but after joining a right wing forum I realized people on the far right are just as insane as people on the far left and not so different. One group bitches about everything being sexist, racist, ___phobic, toxic and the other side bitches about everything being woke, pandering, agenda, narrative and so on. I used to laugh with Jeremy and other GnG members at the snowflakes like Anita Sarkesian reeeeing about sexist video games but now I laugh at Jeremy and the others for reeeeing at Pride cereal, free downloadable BLM the on PS Store and other unimportant shit.

• This reply was modified 1 year, 10 months ago by SuperSoynic_Speed.
• This reply was modified 1 year, 10 months ago by SuperSoynic_Speed.
• This reply was modified 1 year, 10 months ago by SuperSoynic_Speed.

Mustangride1, thanks for clarifying. No offense to you at all, but you seem to be more libertarian (like myself) than conservative to me. Could you elaborate where you differentiate from libertarian? “I am against shoving any agenda in my face of trying to implement polices that detract from my civil liberties” <- That is one of the core libertarian values. Live and let live.
The difference between conservatism and libertariansim isn’t about economic policy, but social policy. Correct me if I’m wrong please, but from what I observe conservatives and libertarianis both reject big government when it comes to gun confiscation, high taxes, overregulation of business and wasteful public spending. Bu conservatives want government to regulate social policy. Specifically anything regarding sex. Texas for example had anti-sodomy laws until 2003. Homosexuality was illegal, and conservatives fought tooth and nail to keep it that way. Also remember the rejection of gay marriage throughout the country, Trump’s trans ban from the military (which would have banned transgender people regardless of conduct or merit simply on the basis of their gender misalignment – clear discrimination) and the current anti trans hysteria. In these subjects, most Conservatives want the goverment to involve itself in people’s lives. Worse yet, they want to government to enforce essentially religious laws or morals regarding homosexuality, when the US constitution expressely forbids government from establishing religion (and by extension forcing religious laws down people’s throats).
Libertarians are consistent about wanting small to no government.

You misunderstand my intent. I see no purpose in dividing people on the right. On the contrary, I think the right needs to build a bigger tent that attracts more people. But this will be hard to achieve if social conservatives don’t become more libertarian. You being friends with a gay person is precisely that. Your religion may forbid homosexuality (not sure if it bans it among females though, I know if interpretations of scripture differ there), but you don’t try and shove it down her throat, subject her to it or pester her with it. Live and let live. You’re doing it. If the political right acted like that, I think not only could the culture war be won, but the Communist infestation be stopped.

Edit: To further illustrate my point, here are two headlines from today on TGP: “Michigan Attorney General Calls for ‘A Drag Queen For Every School,’ Says They ‘Make Everything Better’
June 15, 2022, 3:54”

“Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene Announces She is Introducing Bill to Make it Illegal for Children to be Exposed to Drag Queen Performances
June 15, 2022, 3:04”

Obviously you have the lunatics on the left wanting to use the government to expose kids to drag queen events. Then you have the conservative position of using the government to criminalize the same.

Both leftists and conservatives try to weaponize government against people they don’t like. What both don’t understand is that government power will eventually come back to haunt you. The powers you grant your side today to fight people you don’t like will be used against you the next time, when the other side is in charge. This continues until government is all powerful. Which is where we are today. That is how dictatorships come to be. They scare or rile up people into granting government more and more power until it becomes unstoppable.
That is why the libertarian way is long term the only good way to stop the lunatics on the left. This means also standing up to people like Marjorie Taylor Greene who wants to criminalize something, that realistically shouldnt even be decided by government. It should be up to parents. 99% of parents will not want their kids to be exposed to drag performances. Power to the people is the way.

• This reply was modified 1 year, 10 months ago by Wisdom.

Thank you for taking the time to explain. I grew up in Europe and tend to have a less America-centric view of concepts, which sometimes causes confusion. I know the US uses some screwed up meanings where communists are able to call themselves “liberals” (despite Marx absolutely hating liberalism).
In Europe the traditional terms have not yet lost their meaning. “Liberal” still means “classic liberal”, which is basically free market oriented, and “conservative” tends to be traditionalist / religious conservative. Both are considered part of the political right in Europe and coalitions are formed along these lines. Essentially the spectrum goes like this: (left to right) Communist – Socialist – Green – Social Democrat – Centrist / “Christian Conservative” (the largest bloc in the EU parliament) – Liberal – Traditional Conservative – Nationalist – National Socialist (who should be on the left).

I would have described you as American Constitutionalist, but you mention you don’t mean the US constitution. So a states-rights anti-federalist constitutionist? Makes it a little harder to place you on the traditional left-right spectrum of political philosophy, but I’ll try my best. Where – if at all – would you place yourself on there?

I didn’t know there were still areas of the US which still had these laws about not buying alcohol on sundays. Is that even a Christian law? I know they have these laws in some European nations, like Austria or even Germany, which has a state church and enforces various religious laws, i.e. all stores are closed on sundays and it’s illegal to hold comedy or dance events on good friday, as well as blasphemy laws. But unlike the US, these nations don’t have separation of church and state in their constitutions.

I really like what you say about schools. Yes, it seems schools are about everything except education these days. Kids come out after 8 years, can’t spell, can’t do math but think they have 150 genders and tell you some crap about the Earth burning up in 12 years. No cell phones, dress codes etc would probably be a good idea, though I wouldn’t want them mandated by the government. Should be up to the schools. In general a one-size fits all rarely works, and there’s nothing wrong with trying different approaches. I can tell you that in the UK, where they have dress codes, schools are still indoctrination centers and kids still deal drugs, there’s gangs and there’s constant stabbings. Oftentimes dress codes are even favored by leftists because they make everyone “equal”. Your story about the girl in the school worrying about financial discrimination when the girl runs around with a chromebook made me laugh. Yes, that about sums up schools in 2022. They sure don’t teach logic anymore. I’m actually a lot more offended by the school’s stupid argument than by the girl wearing slutty clothes.

I don’t think I called you or anyone else stupid or insulted anyone. Certainly wasn’t my intent, I promise.

Btw, you make an interesting point about politicians fearing a united people. This may be where conservatives and libertarians differ the most. Ayn Rand wrote extensively about how collectivists use “uniting” language to suppress dissent and criticism. You can read the relevant passage from her novel “The Fountainhead” here: https://courses.aynrand.org/works/the-soul-of-a-collectivist/   In it the villain gloats about his techniques to take over society and enslave people.

Some passages for your reading pleasure: “Kill man’s sense of values. Kill his capacity to recognise greatness or to achieve it. Great men can’t be ruled. We don’t want any great men. Don’t deny conception of greatness. Destroy it from within. The great is the rare, the difficult, the exceptional. Set up standards of achievement open to all, to the least, to the most inept – and you stop the impetus to effort in men, great or small. You stop all incentive to improvement, to excellence, to perfection. Don’t set out to raze all shrines – you’ll frighten men, Enshrine mediocrity – and the shrines are razed.” <- Exactly what Disney and major entertainment outlets, music labels, comic labels etc are doing. They fill the market with fast food for the brain, turn great artistic achievements like Star Wars or Star Trek into generic, uninspired crap.

“This is most important. Don’t allow men to be happy. Happiness is self-contained and self-sufficient. Happy men have no time and no use for you. Happy men are free men. So kill their joy in living. Take away from them what they want. Make them think that the mere thought of a personal desire is evil. Bring them to a state where saying ‘I want’ is no longer a natural right, but a shameful admission. Altruism is of great help in this. Unhappy men will come to you. They’ll need you. They’ll come for consolation, for support, for escape. Nature allows no vacuum. Empty man’s soul – and the space is yours to fill.

Look at any great system of ethics, from the Orient up. Didn’t they all preach the sacrifice of personal joy ? Under all the complications of verbiage, haven’t they all had a single leitmotif: sacrifice, renunciation, self-denial ? Haven’t you been able to catch their theme song – ‘Give up, give up, give up, give up’ ? Look at the moral atmosphere of today. Everything enjoyable, from cigarettes to sex to ambition to the profit motive, is considered depraved or sinful. Just prove that a thing makes men happy and you’ve damned it. That’s how far we’ve come. We’ve tied happiness to guilt. And we’ve got mankind by the throat.”  <- guilt tripping people into sacrificing self interest. Currently done through CRT, white guilt

“The world of the future. The world I want. A world of obedience and of unity. A world where the thought of each man will not be his own, but an attempt to guess the thought of the next neighbour who’ll have no thought – and so on, around the globe. Since all must agree with all. A world where no man will hold a desire for himself, but will direct all his efforts to satisfy the desires of his neighbour who’ll have no desires except to satisfy the desires of the next neighbour, who’ll have no desires – around the globe, Peter. Since all must serve all. A world in which man will not work for so innocent an incentive as money, but for that headless monster – prestige. The approval of his fellows – their good opinion – the opinion of men who’ll be allowed to hold no opinion. An octopus, all tentacles and no brain.

…
Look around you. Pick up any newspaper and read the headlines. Isn’t it coming ? Isn’t it here ? Every single thing I told you ? Isn’t Europe swallowed already and we’re stumbling on to follow ? Everything I said is contained in a single word – collectivism. And isn’t that the god of our century. To act together. To think – together. To feel – together. To unite, to agree, to obey. To obey, to serve, to sacrifice. Divide and conquer – first. But then, unite and rule. We’ve discovered that one last. Remember the Roman Emperor who said he wished humanity had a single neck so he could cut it ? People have laughed at him for centuries. But we’ll have the last laugh. We’ve accomplished what he couldn’t accomplish. We’ve taught men to unite. This makes one neck ready for one leash. We found the magic word. Collectivism. ”

<-  Ayn Rand predicting the Great Reset 80 years before it happened.

I’m not sure the tyrants really fear a united people. Ultimately, I thinkt that’s their goal. A society so united that no view outside of permitted orthodoxy is allowed. I get what you mean when you say you want people to say they are American instead of white, black, christian, jew, gay, straight, whatever. The left uses divide and conquer, identity politics etc to keep people living in fear. Happy people can’t be ruled. Generally I agree. But there is always the question of how far unity goes. Today we may enforce freedom and equal rights for all. Tomorrow someone will demand moral unity. National unity. Religious unity. Equity. Before you know it, we’re right back to tyranny.
Maybe the solution is disunity. Hyper-individualism tempered only by meritocrac. No more sacrificing self interest for the “greater good” (which was actually the Nazi’s social motto “The common good before self interest”). Let everyone be the author of their own destiny – so long as they don’t hurt anyone or mooch off others.
That’s why I think we need to welcome every gay, transgender, sex worker, pornographer, death metal, goth, hardcore techno, skaterpunk, misogynistic rapper, pot smoker, slutty only-fans egirl, eccentric billionaire, starving artist, free thinker, furry, non-aligned social outcast out there. In the end, the weirdos may be the last line of defense against the great reset. Most just don’t know it yet.

• This reply was modified 1 year, 10 months ago by Wisdom.

I find myself agreeing with almost all of what you just wrote. Just to clarify, I am a US citizen now. May not have been brought up in the US, but I’m American. I have personal reasons for that. Mainly being that my birth citizenship was that of the nation which butchered most of my family. The other reason was business, being an American was beneficial for my business at the time. I knew enough of American history to pass the citizenship, but naturally am missing a lot of what it feels like to be American. I never really felt American, but I sure felt some pride when we elected Trump. And deep disgust at the 2020 usurpery. That’s when I began to see America as too far gone. That’s when the courts dropped the mask and showed themselves to be party operatives.
Hope I’m wrong and you are right.

I agree, secession would be an option, but I don’t think the uniparty will allow it. Nor do I think the 2nd amendment offers much protection against the government. As Eric Swalwell has stated when confronted with this argument: “the government has nukes”.  That shows you in what contempt they hold the people and how far they are willing to go to hold on to power.

“My political belief is in it but that any laws must benefit the majority while being fair even to the minority. It cannot infringe on anyone and cannot remove liberties even in the name of safety and security and especially in the name of fear.

I way my political choices on who or what the law will do for the majority. I have voted for bills I did not personally like but see they will benefit people or the community (taxes and mileage’s) but only when they have a sunset clause as I refuse to give my blessing on things that can be abused by perpetuity.”

Wise words. I can get behind that :)

As others said, I see capitalism as being able to keep what you make. Interestingly, the Bible defines that as a type of both Heaven and Hell:

“Say ye to the righteous, that it shall be well with him: for they shall eat the fruit of their doings. Woe unto the wicked! it shall be ill with him: for the reward of his hands shall be given him.” (Isaiah 3:10-11)

Such a wide range of possible outcomes would tend to explain the controversy about letting people keep the fruit of their labor. :)

It’s especially interesting to read the above quote in its immediate context:

“…and they declare their sin as Sodom, they hide it not. Woe unto their soul! for they have rewarded evil unto themselves.

“Say ye to the righteous, that it shall be well with him: for they shall eat the fruit of their doings. Woe unto the wicked! it shall be ill with him: for the reward of his hands shall be given him.

“As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them.” (Isaiah 3:9-12)

So, we’ve got “pride”, violent youth, and feminism all linked together here, too; lol. :P