Yoda was Unnecessary in ESB: Change My Mind

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  • #209545

    This is something I have never been able to answer myself, so let’s see if anyone here has an answer for me.

    We know from interviews that George Lucas didn’t necessarily think he would get to make sequels after making the first film. That’s why when he went to make ESB, he said he need to make a new mentor figure for Luke to continue his Jedi training.

    However, in order for Luke to know where this new mentor was located, Lucas brought back Obi-Wan as a Force Ghost to tell him. So, if Obi-Wan could have continued Luke’s training himself as a Ghost, what was the point in creating Yoda as a character at all? What was Yoda bringing to the table that Ghost Obi-Wan was not?

    #209549

    If was never clearly stated, IIRC, how long a force ghost can maintain its form/communicate.

    Sure, Qui-Gon Jinn was later added to have taught Yoda how to join the force upon death.

    And how much training did Luke do on his own, between Episodes?

    How much was Luke taught via the intuition of the force?  How did he know where to get a kyber crystal to make a lightsaber, and how to make a lightsaber?

    Otherwise, why did we not have a ghost jedi army, like the one we see in The Lord of the Rings: Return of the King?

     

    Sure, having Yoda allowed them to create plot devices, and allowed Luke to see what could happen if he falls to the dark side (encounter in the tree).

    Before this, how one became a Sith was not revealed.

    I don’t think the force alone could have taught Luke that lesson.

     

    It also showed that in a universe with many non-human species, non-humans can also be a force user, and that size does not matter… do or do not, there is no try.

     

    Also, it helped with having a known character and fill in its backstory (just like Obi-Wan Kenobi – failure with Vader, etc) when they made the prequals.

    It created a built in curiosity for the fans.

    What was the Clone Wars?

    How did the Emperor gain control of the galaxy?

    How did Kenobi get the rank General?

    What lead up to the fight on the lava planet (and the fight itself)?

     

     

    If we did not have a Yoda to train Luke, give him the fundamentals so he can learn more on his own, we would get…

    The Mary-Sue that is Rey.

     

    So given the choice of having now one to train you (Rey) or having someone (Yoda training Luke), I would pick Yoda option every day.

    #209555

    “The greatest teacher failure is”

    Yoda. Was. Necessary!

    #209558

    It was only in the sequels that a force ghost was shown to have any ability to influence the material world through the Force. Without that a living teacher would always be superior because they could demonstrate what they were talking about, for example by lifting an X-wing out of a swamp.

    #209559

    Of course I’m not saying that he should not have been trained at all, I’m just saying that Obi-Wan could have finished the training himself as a Force Ghost. I feel like Lucas could have written it around Obi-Wan showing Luke everything Yoda does in the film. @StephenDutton does make a good point about the X-Wing though.

    #209561

    Also, in the real world, Alec Guinness didn’t want to reprise the role of Obi-Wan, if I’m not mistaken, both his scenes in ESB and ROTJ were filmed in a day

    #209563

    Like always the child is wrong.

    Force ghosts do not really have the power that living beings do. They cant influance the real world in a meaningful way. So telling a student from beyone the grave 3 years later that the student needed to go find a new master was about all ObiWan could do.

    But somehow Im not at all surprised that this child wants to act like Luke should be a gary stew like his rat franchise bitch is.

    #209575

    All Yoda did was sit on Luke’s back or on the ground talking about how to use the Force. How could Obi-Wan not do the exact same thing exactly? That’s not influencing the real world at all. It’s talking, just like Yoda did.

    Where is everybody getting the idea that I don’t want Luke to be trained at all from?

    #209603

    “what was the point in creating Yoda as a character at all? What was Yoda bringing to the table that Ghost Obi-Wan was not?”

    Merch.

    #209678

    The puppet couldnt do half of what was storyboarded for the training sequence.

     

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