AI generated images and videos are not the thing to fear

@SuperSoynic_Speed

Great conversation, I really appreciate it.
Yes in some cases money is the issue, but there are instances where money does not substitute consent like the examples of rape etc

You are conflating physical violence with digital reproduction. To affect someone in the physical world against their will is indeed abhorrent and often a crime.  That is because you are causing actual harm to that person physically and directly.  If a guy punches a woman in the face, he is most obviously injured.  If the same guy just makes an AI video of him punching her in the face, she is not hurt.  You can make the claim that using her likeness without her “consent” is an unlicensed reproduction but that again is just a matter of licensing and if consent is given that would normally be don’t through getting a bill and it being paid.

The progress of AI will, and already has, result to weaponizing it for harrassment and bullying.

This is no different than the brick and hammer explanation I made.  Every tool every created can be used for good and evil.  That tool is in itself not good or evil, it acts with the intention of the user.  You cannot use the tool for it’s intended purpose without allowing the use of it in unintended ways.  None of this is new and people have harassed others since humans have been around and they do not need the internet to do it.  I don’t see this as some huge departure from anything prior.  I see it more as fear mongering by the forces who wish to control/license this quasi new technology.

 In the worst case scenario, it can be utilized as an easy way to spread false information and explicit vidoes of someone which like false rape accusations can be very difficult to prove wrong, and even after being proven wrong leaves a blemish on a person. 

This is not much different than the internet prior to now. It’s slightly more accurate and that’s about it.  It could actually have a positive effect where people stop assuming what they see online is truth as they will adapt to question everything.  This idea that people will be fooled is a point in time only prior to humans adapting to a somewhat new technology.   As far as leaving a blemish, false accusations harming people is not something AI created and that is not a tech problem that is a people problem and technology is not going to solve that.

The progress of AI will, and already has, result to weaponizing it for harrassment and bullying.

These are 2 things that have been over focused on for decades, I remember when it started.  And all it has done is made many people so fragile that they almost cannot function in society.  Life is tough, people need to be tough. Everyone outside of the west understands this.  Our society that was built off grit and resilience is now crumbling under the weight of weakness.  There is a stark common sense difference between jokes/mockery/name calling and actual abuse.  If I slap someone in the face every time I see them, that is clearly abuse.  If I don’t call you the right name, that is not abuse.  But those 2 things have now been conflated.  If we don’t stop that nonsense, then society collapses and when we are all in the breadline or fighting someone for scraps, all that will matter is what someone can do and what they cannot.  No one will care about being bullied.

I don’t want to get too personal on your relatives as examples, but as a father and a brother it would be extremely unfortunate to have it happen to your relatives, knowing there is nothing that can be done to hold the perpetrator responsible other than punching their teeth into their throat, but that wouldn’t lead to anything but you getting in legal trouble.

You mention the solution without realizing it.  If I am a teenager and I am pissed at my ex-girlfriend and I decide I will make an AI video of her such that her friends and maybe school/job thinks she is a whore.  I can do that.  It might even be very easy.  But if I am even slightly concerned her Dad comes to my door and punches me in the face, maybe I don’t do that as I am aware of the possible consequences that will hurt me.

Is it illegal for a man to punch a teenager?  Yes.  But no progress is made without sacrifice.  Let several news stories go out about kids getting kicked in their nads or maybe a Dad getting revenge in a creative way.  People begin to think twice.  The reason people today don’t understand this (and you did not either) is they think in terms of only what effects them.  “Demonstrating” to someone that negative actions can have negative consequences (this is something boys/young men require) could be an example to others that they learn from.  You can effect people beyond just you in a positive way.  Maybe that’s worth a night in jail.

I have a story I always tell.  A woman in the 80s stood up in court and shot/killed the man who raped her young son and who was getting released due to a technicality.  She is one reason metal detectors are everywhere.

She got life in prison.  She was asked decades later, more than once.  Are you sorry?  Would you do that again?.  Her answer?  Absolutely, that man will never touch another child.  Did her actions harm her?  Yes.  But maybe she helped many people.  And if you question that, realize I am talking about her now.  So she harmed herself to help her child and others.  That is called sacrifice.

Am I advocating for murdering people?  No, I am saying if people understand bad things can indeed happen to them if they do something bad.  They will think  twice.  And laws that may or may not be followed or that can be avoided with proper funding is NOT what I am talking about.

She died in prison a few years back.

it doesn’t have to be just physical violence, it can be anything that hurts another person’s reputation like slander. Accusing someone of being a pedophile rapist with falsified video footage, paying that person won’t solve it.

Slander/libel is already illegal.  “anything” that hurts a person’s reputation is ridiculously wide open.  That is why in with slander and libel actual damages have to be proven.   Whether you have fake video or not does not change any of that.  And again, we are already at the point where if a fake video like that came out, the first thing on everyone’s mind would be, is it AI?  So the effect is already limited.

All I am saying is people should be prepared for misuse of it, and I reject any statement that it should not be anything to worry or in worse cases fear.

I 100% agree with that.  I am not fearful of AI itself.  It is NOT artificial intelligence.  But I fear what bad people will do with that tool. Although I really think that effect will be limited and have a short lifespan as people question what they see.  That part, might be a silver lining.

And you might receive social reporcussions like getting fired/expelled from work or school and people are gonna think you are weird.  It’s a bit similar to usage of slurs or antisemitic rhetoric, while you might not be thrown in jail, but don’t be surprised when people and companies do not want to engage and hire you. Just look at Kanye, the guy went on a press tour talking about how jews are evil and run a secret plan with evil intents and said there are things he loves about Hitler. He’s not in jail, but lost his brand deals and people turn away from him. You can call it cancellation, I would call it companies and brands acting in their best and most profitable interest and cutting away rotten apples.

Institutions acting on you ARE NOT social repercussions.  And yes that is cancellation because the vast majority of the time that is a weaponized thing and not something organic.

In the US you do not get thrown in jail for slurs.  In other countries you indeed do. In the US though it is very close to that as the US government steps towards tyranny for people who dissent against it.

Kanye did say he loved Hitler but it was in the context of  “hey you are a Christian do you love even Hitler?” and he said yes he loved Hitler.  He did not say he agreed with Hitler.  I know this because I saw the whole interview and not just clips. I actually feel bad for Kanye, he is unwell.  But when you have that much cash no one tells you no and everyone tells you that you are great.  You are surrounded by people who just want your money.   Very sad actually.

Companies in an organic way deciding not to do business with someone is not cancellation.  But companies not doing that because they got thousands of emails and tweets from an organized effort is indeed cancellation.

Vigiliantism and revenge is a common trope in movies for example. Does killing another person for revenge make you feel better?

See, you entirely misunderstand that whole story and I suspected you would. You perceive what that woman did as revenge because that’s in some way why you yourself would do such a thing. In her case it was sacrifice.  She knew what would happen to her.  As she herself said, “he will never touch another child again.”  Do I agree with her actions?  Yes and no.  I do not believe in killing another person as life and death is God’s territory. But I do think it is justified in self defense and one could make an argument that is what she did on behalf of others.  But there is no way to ever know that.  But understand something.  When government fails at one of the few actual jobs it has, law and order, people will take over and defend themselves.  And right now in the US in many cities we are about there.

 With some exceptions no matter the cause, ending another person’s life will get you in trouble and if you accept it and want to go through it then sure, but there’s always a risk of blaming the wrong person 

Sure there is a risk of picking the wrong person.  Is there always consequences for that?  Not if you are wrong and you are the government, then there are no consequences.  So what you are saying people should not do because they could be wrong is the case whether it is individuals or a collection of people called the government.  In the case of the individuals, at least they care about the situation and victims.  The government does not at this point.

I am not advocating for people taking the law into their own hands unless it is self defense or order breaks down.  Then you do what you have to.  My only point is if there were social (not cancellation or criminal charges) consequences people would think twice in many cases.  And yes sometimes that does mean a group of men getting together and tossing someone out of a building or making it known if they do ABC again there will be dire consequences.  Those sort of things helped keep society on the correct path.  Stigma and social pressures for negative activity is a good thing.  And that is one reason why things have gone sideways, not because of stigma and social pressures but because those things have been removed. And like true agents of chaos, “they” keep telling society that the poison is the antidote and if we just keep doing the same things that caused issues it will solve them.

yes but again, I am not talking from a legal perspective. Slander was a bad example because it is illegal, but causing harm to people, be it legal or not, can not always just be substituted with money which we both agree on.

If you are going to speak of what is law and what is not, then all there can be is a legal perspective.  See there you go again sir.  Using redefined and wide open terms.  I am hip to your ruse.  Harm is not just anything that hurts someone’s feeling and I deny that this is it’s definition.  There are 2 types of harm.  Physical and financial.  My feelings are hurt or you made me look bad does not enter into that.  You will not ever rid the world of bad people but trying will rid the world of freedom.

Under capitalism the number one goal of businesses according to Milton Friedman is profit maximization.

Actually that’s not what was said.  It was “The Social Responsibility of Business Is to Increase Its Profits”.  Now today, like so many definitions, profit has been twisted to mean greed.  This is not at all true.  Wanting to make profit is fine.  However, pursuing that goal without consideration of what is legal, moral or fair is when we enter into greed.  The original theme of greed was not wanting too much of a thing but wanting something you were not entitled too.  Which ironically applies to communism and socialism.

At the end of the day.  The US does not have a free market and I am not sure how much capitalism is left.  But a thriving business provides good jobs and typically will do philanthropic things.  When a company does well, people associated with it also do well. And that does include shareholders.  And shareholders are not just ultra rich people.  In fact, shareholders are more often than not people with 401ks and pensions.

If a company is doing poorly, then those associated with it tend to do poorly and there is no philanthropic work. So IF a company is only concentrating on doing well they still do good.  But to think every company is a conglomerate only concerned with share price is not accurate.  Most companies are not and many many small to medium companies care much about where they are and who they are.

Just like people are free to voice their anger towards that person and associated company.

Organic reactions are fine.  The issue is cancellations which are not organic nor are they some benevolent force.  All that is, is an agenda attempting to enforce it’s will.

weirdly enough to conversation shifted from Kanye explaining why he dislikes jews to jumping to praising Hitler

Again, he did not praise Hitler.  I explained to how those words came out of his mouth.

 He also falsely claimed Hitler was behind the inventions of microphones and highways. 

How is him misrepresenting history any different then you misrepresenting his words?

The funniest part was that Kanye acted so smug after claiming his love for Hitler,

Again this is out of context and you either know that or you just refuse to watch the interview. At this point beating up Kanye is like beating up a retarded kid.  But one with so much money no one helps him they just keep trying to take his money.  Dude is seriously f’d up.  You have defended the mentally ill many times.  This dude needs help.

But that is not self defense, it is revenge with sacrificing your freedom at the same time. Even if someone has killed another person, you can’t just go kill that person and say ”he was going to do it again probably”. It also depends on the case if it is a worthy act, like if you have children or a wife/husband then leaving them alone to go to prison for revenge/”sacrifice” is a terrible idea.

I shocks me none that you have trouble with this concept.  If you are a progressive as you have said, then you probably see all things through the lens of self. People can and do decide to sacrifice for others. This is literally how society is built and also why it is falling apart.

“The one who plants trees, knowing that he will never sit in their shade, has at least started to understand the meaning of life.”
― Rabindranath Tagore