Winter War 84 Years Ago

“Another reason why Finland takes protecting Ukraine seriously, as Finland have experienced first handed the dirty tactics Russia/Soviet Union uses to justify their invasions.”

I find demonizing only some countries is not only inaccurate but also counterproductive.

First off, it is typically the governments of these countries doing these things and not necessarily the people themselves.  Indicting an entire people for the crimes of their governments is wrong.

I know many folks speak to the “evil” of Russian and many do of China.  I don’t disagree with that in general but it is a mistake to think they are alone.  They are simply some of the more capable at this time.

So here we are talking about maybe Russia will do this or that and start a war here or there.  Those are appropriate conversations to have.  But to focus on only Russia is a critical mistake.  My point being the governments of many powerful countries right now not only do as they please with the resources taken from their people but often work in concert with each other for their own self enrichment.

How many wars/conflicts has Russia been in since 1945?  How many has the US been in?  We are focusing on Russia but others are just as much a threat.

Do not mistake me here.  Russia could be a serious threat.  You all know I am a Christian.  There have been multiple prophecies coming from visions of Mary in Fatima specifically about Russia.  They are interesting as they say if Russia does not come to God it will do horrible things and initiate much war but if it does it will be a center for those whom believe in God.   If you are unaware of Our Lady of Fatima you probably think this sounds silly.  If you look at her words I find it most frightening.

“When you . . . see a night illuminated by an unknown light, know that this is the great sign that He [God] is going to punish the world for its crimes, by means of war. . . .  To prevent this, I shall come to ask for the consecration of Russia to my Immaculate Heart. . . .  If they listen to my requests, Russia will be converted and there will be peace; if not, she will spread her errors through the world, causing wars and persecutions of the Church.  The good will be martyred, the Holy Father will have much to suffer, various nations will be annihilated.”  — July 13, 1917, heard/see by Lucia dos Santos

There is more to it than that, this is just the first bit of it.

” have issues with many countries. But not all of them are actively trying to kill people in other countries and occupying territory.”

That’s not a claim I made.  I simply said don’t demonize simply one country when many are guilty.  Again, country being the government not the people.

“Very true. Which is why I would wish Russians would rise up against their dictatorship, and also why I do not want Ukraine or anyone else to launch a counter attack into Russian territory unless it’s explicitly to hit military infrastructure.”

I would hope all countries peoples can be free and take away the powers that rule them unfairly.  Russia, UK, USA and so on.  Also, the idea you can fight a war with only surgical precision and no one else gets hurt is not reality.  War in simple definition is breaking things and killing people because all diplomacy has failed.  This idea of a half-hearted effort is why wars go on for decades.  War is horrific and should be avoided at all costs.  No different than defending yourself with a firearm.  It’s something you should only do if someone makes you.

“I didn’t expect such a leftist take, I’m honestly surprised. Anyway, I did a quick count and it seems like the US has been in 32 conflicts and Russia/USSR has been in 29.”

How is the truth a take that belongs to a certain “team”?  The truth is the truth, it does not have an agenda.

“I didn’t read up the background on each 50+ conflicts so I may be wrong about this, but I’m pretty sure Russia has more wars which involves them directly invading other countries to gain territory, while the US has more conflict participation where they lend military aid to countries getting attacked.”

Military Aid?  So Iraq was military aid? Afghanistan? Seriously man, you tow the line so hard for the establishment you must be on of them.

“However, it could be more comparable if the US one day decided that all the Mexicans coming over the border illegally justified them to go in and bomb the shit out of northern Mexico”

At least that is something that affects us directly.  Destroying Iraq on behalf of Kuwait was none of our beeswax and we did all that based on lies for self enrichment.  Which is the same reason we are in Ukraine.  Do you fall for everyone who feigns compassion but pays themselves?  Send me a check for $10,000 right now. I promise I will save many puppies and kittens.  I mean I will take 3/4 of the cash for hookers n blow and I will use the rest to kill birds but hey, compassion.

• This reply was modified 4 months, 3 weeks ago by Vknid.

I would hope all countries peoples can be free and take away the powers that rule them unfairly.  Russia, UK, USA and so on

Of course there are things to criticize about them all, I am strongly against the monarchy in the UK and have many problems with the USA, one being the conflicts they participate in. I am not however counting up all their faults in a thread about Russia’s involvement in conflict.

How is the truth a take that belongs to a certain “team”?  The truth is the truth, it does not have an agenda.

oh I know, which is why I am positively surprised since a lot of people I have discussed with here pick their team and argue based on that.

Military Aid?  So Iraq was military aid? Afghanistan? Seriously man, you tow the line so hard for the establishment you must be on of them.

I did not mention those two. But as far as I know, the Korean war was rationaled with South Koreans needing aid against the invasion from the north supported by the USSR and China. The war on terror was a shitshow with a lot of lies used to justify, but the rationale of eliminating a terrorist organization who actually actively caused damage on your own soil was more logically consistent, but it was such a small fraction of what occured in reality that it went down the toilet.

But I think one of the major differences is that every country around or in proximity to the US don’t need to be worried whether they are going to get invaded or sabotaged at any moment.

At least that is something that affects us directly.  Destroying Iraq on behalf of Kuwait was none of our beeswax and we did all that based on lies for self enrichment.

Somehow I feel like that would not be a great idea. Doing that would put more of your own people at danger, if you decide to bring the war to your own doorstep.

Which is the same reason we are in Ukraine.

But you aren’t. In Ukraine it’s inly Ukrainians and voluntarily soldiers with boots on the ground.

Do you fall for everyone who feigns compassion but pays themselves?  Send me a check for $10,000 right now. I promise I will save many puppies and kittens.  I mean I will take 3/4 of the cash for hookers n blow and I will use the rest to kill birds but hey, compassion.

I would dare to say letting Russia occupy Ukraine would be a greater threat in the future. Ukraine didn’t even have a proper military until 2014, and they are up against a super power. If they waste the aid they get and lose because of that then it’s kinda their own fault. But I do believe pushing Russia out is crucial, because if they succeed without the west reacting in any way, they’ll just gather strength for 10 years and roll out to get another country after that

It takes a lot of effort to not fall to that. But since you seem to bang the drum of every leftist tenant I will say ,to this point, you are the thing you complain about.

I pulled away from the right wing after joining this forum actually. I used to gobble up Crowder, Shapiro etc until I noticed how much lies they are spewing. Another factor was I noticed that people on the far right are just as batshit crazy as far left people, mainly from people on this forum. I re-evaluated my stance on many topics, but my views certainly don’t line up with leftists either. I oppose socialism, I think leftists in general have horrible foreign policy takes (Israel-Palestine conflict being one example) and so on. I would consider myself a liberal social democrat, by no means a leftist or socialist.

The war on terror (again a nice name) was a sh!tshow.  Agreed.  Did it maybe do some good? I had heard there were positives.  But it seemed mostly to be about feeding money from the tax coffers to lots of other people.  And I am not aware of any terrorist organization that was actually eliminated.   I actually challenge the effectiveness or the righteousness of invading a country in the name of self-defense when that country is half a world away.

on paper it sounded nice, counter attack against a terrorist force that fucked up your country. The US would have looked really weak if they hadn’t reacted in any way, showing that terrorists can just slip in and cause mayhem without repercussion. But yeah it went truly south.

you still think the west’s involvement in Ukraine is altruistic.

I do yeah. If no one reacted to Nazi Germany’s bullshit things could have gone very different. With no involvement or military aid, smaller countries would just be consumed by larger ones. China would have probably already taken Taiwan and who knows what other countries. Russia is pretty good at sticking needles to see how far they can go before they meet resistance. Even in Finland now they have been testing the limits by infrastructure sabotage and now the refugee thing on the border. Without any guarantee of military assitance like NATO or the Nordic Alliance, who knows what Russia would do.

The west (especially the US) is sending billions of cash and billions in weapons.  Do you really think that is for the common good of Ukraine?

it has proved to be useful, yes. Ukraine has pretty poor artillery force, and the HIMARS rockets provided have been a lifesaver for Ukraine in both defensive and offensive strategy due to their long range, helping Ukraine destroy ammo and other military equipment storages. Assistance in airforce weaponry is also crucial due to Ukraine’s pretty much non-existent airforce capability, as Russia has not been able to take over the air which was crucial in for example defending the capital Kiev when Russia was hunting for Zelenskiy during the opening stages.